Future Breakout: Shogun (stealth). Interview with CEO Anthony Ghosn. Full interview.
We expect to see Shogun on the 2018 Breakout List
This is the first time anyone from Shogun has talked publicly about their company.
Notes on Shogun
Shogun is a stealth financial services company led by CEO Anthony Ghosn and Chaired by Joe Lonsdale, co-founder of Palantir. The following is an exceptionally interesting and thought provoking interview with Shogun’s CEO, Anthony Ghosn.
The interview
How have you hired your employees so far?
It’s all network. You find people you trust who you’d want to work with or who you are working with and then those people kind of introduce you to people that they want to work with and that’s been the primary way we’ve gotten everybody in the company.
So that I can get a sense of your culture, can you give an example of where you said no to a candidate that other companies would’ve wanted to hire? Has this happened yet?
Yeah, it has. We’ve already interviewed around probably just under 20 engineers. There were many of them who were extremely competent people. But I think fundamentally, and this kind of goes into our whole mission statement. We’re not in the business of defrauding idealists. We’re really trying to build a great business. I think to build a great business, you need great people. They have to be able to work well together and they have to be able to create a collective and synergistic culture.
How do you decide on candidates?
You can really tell, at least I feel like I can … Everybody tells you, “Hiring is a total crap shoot,” and in many ways it is probably. That being said, I think a lot of my hiring decisions have been completely intuitive. Obviously, you want to look for a specific level of competence and qualification around the role that you’re hiring for but when it comes down to the person, the personality, it’s really a gut decision. If you had two equal candidates you’d go with whichever one you were kind of intuitively attracted to and I really trust that side of my brain or whatever you want to call it … the Somatic system. There were definitely examples where we had really great engineers, incredibly competent, but I just knew that they wouldn’t be a great fit for the team.
Editor’s note: “Though he tended to be swayed by reputations, [Steve] Jobs distrusted résumés and preferred to rely on his instincts.” Michael Moritz. “Return to the Little Kingdom: Steve Jobs and the Creation of Apple.”
What worries you?
That’s a really good question. It’s hard to say, because on one hand, I’m determined. What I would worry about would be when things go wrong. That could take all sorts of forms. Let’s say a contract doesn’t go through or you don’t see the conversion that you’re expecting, or an employee you’re really excited about doesn’t actually perform to the level that you’re excited about.
All these things go wrong, but I’m pretty determined. For example, we had a big contract … That was our go-to-market strategy. We had contingency plans, but that was really the go-to-market strategy that we had all come around initially. Going into that meeting, I was actually really calm because I knew that this company is going to happen anyways. A small bump in the early days, or a small bump at virtually any point doesn’t mean I’ve lost determination about the value we can create in this market.
There’s obviously plenty of things that worry me. There’s plenty of uncertainty. If there’s one thing that worries me probably more than anything, to be totally frank with you, the biggest source of pressure is really letting down the members of my team. I’m actually not even exaggerating about that at all. If I think about the nights that I couldn’t sleep, it was about that.
It’s entertaining scary realities in which you’ve essentially led everyone on a wild goose chase, or you’re not doing the best thing by them. There’s so many ways. Every time I interview somebody, the first question I ask them is, “What do you want out of the next three or four years of your life, or five years of your life?” I tell them straight up, “If I can’t offer you a differentiated path there, then there’s no point in necessarily continuing this conversation, because this is going to be super-hard, and If you don’t believe that this is the best thing you’re going to be doing, then I just don’t think it makes sense.” Straight up, I start every interview that way.
What is your answer to that question? What do you want out of the next three to four years of life, honestly? Is it money or building something to make money and experience is a byproduct?
That’s a super-interesting question and I’ve been spending a lot of time thinking about it. I always wondered the extent to which the narratives are purely retrospective, and there’s something intrinsic about certain people that they feel the need to build things. Let’s imagine I was the same person 500 years ago, I probably wouldn’t be starting a company. I don’t know that I’m inherently a merchant, and I’d have started a trading company. It could’ve been a million different things.
I do know that ever since I was young, I’ve had this excitement about building interesting things. Fundamentally, I really value the ability to help other people grow and achieve their goals. That’s probably the single thing I get the most fulfillment out of, both in terms of my relationships, but also in terms of the company and the way I try to deal with whatever challenges come up in the company.
How do you think about money?
The way I see money and the role it plays in our society is I see it as kind of the most abstract form of bending reality to your will.
The more money you have, the more ability you have to actually bend reality to your will. Whether that be to hang out on an island somewhere or if that be to put all the money you’ve made into a rocket ship company, you’re able to do that thanks to liquidity. In my case, I think you only get to live once, and I have really strong opinions about the way the world works, and things that should be built, and things that should exist. I’d like to experience increase my ability to manifest my will in a certain way.
What would you do with $100 million, assuming that it can’t be related to this company?
That’s interesting. I’ve actually spent a lot of time thinking about that. There are clear things I would obviously do if I had that kind of liquidity. Number one would be I think it’d be very interesting to start a newspaper. I just really enjoyed being editor of The Review, and I saw how important a newspaper can be to contributing to an overall dialogue and contributing a unique perspective, especially.
I also do think that right now, especially right now, there’s just a lot of skepticism around the narrative that newspapers are actually peddling. I think there’s probably a unique way to enter that conversation. I also think Silicon Valley, in a serious way, lacks … I probably shouldn’t say this, but- I do think it lacks serious journalism. I hesitate to say I think most writers and columnists may even agree.
In your answer to the question “in which ways do you think the world is most broken”, would one of the most substantial things for you would be the existing media companies?
That would be one of the answers, but I think that if I were to do a ranked list, it would be probably number 53. There’s so many more things that are super-broken with the world. I’m just saying if I had $100 million, particularly, I can’t solve every problem with that, but one thing that I’d probably do, which is top of mind, which I’ve been thinking a lot about, especially recently, is actually to find really smart people and get them writing and sharing their thoughts.
What is something that you are proud of that you don’t normally tell people?
That’s interesting. I’m very proud of my relationship with my sisters. I have three sisters. I have a great relationship with all of them, and it’s maintained that way. They are, for sure, the most important people in my life. I like that they all trust me and they all get that I always have their best interests at heart … That’s something that gives me a lot of pride and satisfaction.
The flip question of that is what is something either that you are struggling with that don’t normally tell many people?
That’s a good one. Let me think this through.
I’d say for me, it’s probably … One thing I’m working on is making more space in my personal life for a personal life.
There’s two things to it. Number one is that Napoleon quote, which is that glory only exists in the hearts of young men and in retrospect, which I find to be one of the most clear pieces of wisdom that I really relate to, because starting a company, running a company, many people think it’s glorious … Some people make it glorious, but that usually doesn’t last very long.
The truth is that it’s a toil, it’s a struggle, it’s challenging, it’s a lot of sleepless nights. When I actually read Ben Horowitz’ book, after I started the company, and I’m glad I did read it once I’d started the company, because I think it would probably be much harder to empathize with where he was coming from with the book, had I not experienced to some degree the intense pressure of actually building a business. That’s the first thing.
The second thing, also from Napoleon, is his final words. This is a guy who was nobody in Corsica, which two years earlier was Italy. It’s really as though somebody who was a second-tier bureaucrat’s son on Guam right now came to become the Emperor in this modern day world. We’ve had democracy for hundreds of years … He came to become the Emperor of the Americas, which was a conglomerate of Canada, U.S., Mexico, and South America. That’s literally what he did. That’s the equivalent. That’s the best analogy in our modern world.
His final word was the name of the first woman he ever fell in love with. I just find that to be such a … This guy who lived the most fantastic life. He had adventure, he had intellectuals, he had everything. He had more power than anybody within 500 years either way of him, and his last word was the name of the first woman he ever loved. I just find that so powerful.
The struggle you’re talking about, does that basically manifest itself in the sense of you are worried that you’re getting … You’re worried and want to make sure you don’t get caught up with things that seem important, but aren’t important?
It’s closer to I appreciate that there are multiple things that are important, and it’s a marathon, so you have to be investing all these different areas of your life. I think my biggest struggle right now is I’m so obsessed with what I’m doing that I think I don’t make enough space for the people I care about and people who care about me.
What are your top three goals in life that you know of?
That’s actually an interesting question. I haven’t really thought about putting it all together into a very coherent thing of three goals. I’d say number one is to be … When I think about this, I probably think about it in a way that “what would make me satisfied at the end of my life”, looking back on my life in a certain way.
Number one is to really make the people I love proud. That’s really number one, I would say. Just proud of me, proud of what I’ve done, proud of the contributions I’ve made.
Why is that important to you?
I think humans are tribal. If you look back at the origins of society, even if you look at what Rousseau was writing, the origin of society really reduces to the family unit. We live in a highly individualistic society, where we tend to try to rationalize a lot of our relationships. Fundamentally, I think things like unconditional love, I think they’re evolutionarily baked into us and they drive our actions in ways we can’t understand. A small way that you can identify this is whenever you meet someone, like the parents of somebody you know well, you always come to understand them much better. That’s just one way of teasing out the reality that I think that fundamentally, we’re all in these little tribes. At least that’s the way I see it. For me, that’s a big one.
Number two, I’d love to live an interesting life. You only get one shot at this incredibly complex, indescribable experience. That’s probably number two.
What would number three be? All these things around doing very good things for society, being a good person, they all fold in under number one.
You wouldn’t put a separate number three, necessarily, then?
Let me see, what would number three be? There’s nothing that jumps out to me. I think it’s to make people I care about and care about me proud of me. That comes through contributing greatly, that comes through being a great … I’ve always admired and I’ve always looked up to and always wanted to emulate the great leaders of our society, people who have really moved society forward, developed new institutions. It doesn’t necessarily have to be like that, I don’t feel as though I need to create a revolution in order to be a great leader. A great leader can be a restaurant manager, or a waiter, or a bartender. It really comes down to the interactions you have and whether you’re constantly investing in other peoples’ growth or not.
Other than your sisters, who are two people you admire that you know personally?
That’s tough. Can it be three?
Yeah, let’s do three.
Obviously, number one is going to be my dad.
The follow up question for each of them will be what is one attribute in particular as to why?
I would say number one would be my dad, probably… I wouldn’t want to number them, although number one would be my dad. Number two and three in no particular order is probably Naguib and Joe.
What is the aspect of each of them that you admire the most?
I think for my dad, there’s no single aspect. It’s really holistic admiration. It’s pretty much everything. He’s just an incredible person. He’s been a great father, best friend. I’ve had a great relationship with him. Also, you can just take objectively, he was born in the Amazon, literally, in Porto Velho, Brazil, which is a place like nobody’s ever heard of, which is in the far north of Brazil, and he’s just really managed to discipline himself and accomplish a lot and make great contributions to society. I really credit him. He created opportunities for his family. I really have a lot of admiration for him.
Joe is probably … He’s an incredibly rare human. I think it’s because usually when you get exceptional people, usually they’re exceptional across one specific superlative. What I’ve found is they’re either incredibly creative, incredibly hard-working, or incredibly intelligent. That’s what you usually find. It’s usually one of these three. Joe is a rare breed. I find him to be incredibly creative, and incredibly intelligent, and incredibly hard-working. He’s superlative across all three, which is quite rare.
I think Naguib is one of the best humans I know. I don’t know, I feel like, in certain ways, he’s like a yin-yang, like him and I are like a yin-yang. We’re friends, brothers. He’s like my mentor in a certain way, but then, we also have deep love and respect, admiration for each other. I haven’t really spent time trying to put it into words, but there’s this unspoken brotherhood that takes place between him and I. I do, I have an incredible amount of admiration for the person he is. He’s taught me a lot, and he continues to teach me a lot.
How would the 10 people closest to you describe you?
Number one, everybody always tells me — loyal. I think that’s definitely number one.
People tend to describe me as being very intense. I generally don’t engage in small talk. I’m not that type of person, which is both to my credit and detriment.
What is your proudest accomplishment?
That’s a really great question. I’ll answer that question honestly, which is, I don’t really … Again, both a great thing about my personality and a terrible thing about my personality is that I’m still not at the place where I can appreciate accomplishment. I still feel as though I have not necessarily accomplished. In a certain way, I’m constantly looking forward to new things to be doing.
I realize that you actually can ride that hamster wheel for the rest of your life and never feel accomplished, but that goes back to what I was talking about in terms of a flaw around not being able to create space to be in the present, to enjoy things as they are. I’m starting to become more and more aware of and think through that there’s an end date. There’s a last breath, as a necessary fact, and to think about that it puts everything else in perspective in a certain way. I don’t have a single thing where I’ve really felt like, “Wow, this is great. I’m so great.” That doesn’t exist.
On that — how do you think about standards and evaluation for people and for yourself?
I’m a very potential-driven person. I tend to see a lot of potential in people. As a consequence, when I feel as though somebody has a lot of potential and they’re squandering it, whether I’m realizing it or I’m not doing a good enough job developing it and eliciting it, I take it personally.
Can you give a story to put that into context for me?
I have quite a few. They’re somewhat mundane. I was tutoring somebody when I was in school. I did this tutoring program. I was tutoring this kid and it was just so frustrating to me that he didn’t believe he could do anything. He just didn’t believe in himself. That was something that really worked me, and I would constantly … We’d end up not even doing his homework. We were essentially debating about his abilities. Sometimes that gets in the way of actually getting anything done.
I was like, “Because you’re so young … “ He was 15–16? He just didn’t think he could do anything. He didn’t think he could ever get to Harvard, for example. He didn’t think he could ever play for the NFL. He wanted to play. That was his dream, football. He didn’t think that these things were even possible for him, and I was like, “It’s way too early to give up.”
What would you do if you had five years left?
Oh, wow, that’s a tough one.
I think there are probably two paths. I don’t know what I would do, to be honest with you. It would be very hard for me to determine that. I do acknowledge that there’s an inherent uncertainty to life, in a certain way, it’s very possibly far less than five years left, and this is what I’m doing. I think there’s probably two paths I could take with it. If I’m being totally honest, I don’t know which one I would take. I think there’s the selfless path. I have the selfish path and the selfless path.
If I was to take the selfish path, which I think to some degree might make sense if you have five years left. I could very easily see myself taking either. I would essentially just go and explore and poke around the world. It’s like if you had access to … Imagine if you had access to a video game that has the most incredible dynamic, multi-faceted planet that you could interface with, and you realize your computer only had five years left of batteries. Probably not the best analogy, but you’d go and you’d check out every different part of it, because there’s so much to this planet. There’s so much to the human experience, I’d just try to go and feel everything. That’s the selfish path.
Selfless path, I’d just try to figure out within five years, what could I do that would have the greatest contribution? I do see myself as someone who is committed to contribution. Now do I think that there’s time pressure on me over the next five years to do the single thing that has the greatest contribution? No, because I think I’ll live very long. I also think that building a reputation, building and establishing oneself … These things that come through building a business and actually being successful at it enable a lot more of a contribution, but that happens in the 5 to 10 year horizon or whatever, the 10- to 20-year horizon. I’d essentially try to figure that out and do that.
How long do you expect to be operating this company for?
Honestly, I think there is a world in which I operate it for the rest of my life.
How long do you think your team expects to be working at this company for?
I’d love to create a place where people spend their entire lives. I’m not saying that that means I expect that out of everybody, but I’m saying if I was really building a great business and a great culture, then people would stay. Why would they leave? That goes back to the question of offering a differentiated path to what they want to achieve. I think you do that by always knowing the ways in which people want to grow and always supporting that growth.
Can you tell me more about that? Explain again, you ask potential employees the question of what they want over the next three or four years, and then?
I just tell them, “If I can’t offer you a differentiated path there, then there’s no point in continuing.” A lot of young people want to be part of building something important and serious. I think part of that is definitely financial, but I think that fundamentally, it’s not purely financial. I think part of that is a desire for adventure. If you think about what this would’ve looked like 400 years ago, you would’ve probably got on a boat and gone and tried to find something interesting, probably.
The origin of man is an interesting story if you believe, which I do, the scientific story around evolution. The first people were developed because essentially monkeys descended from trees, which is the iterative behavior, the non-repetitive behavior.
Interviewer: “The non-repetitive behavior … Oh, as in all the other monkeys were hanging out in the trees and then a couple of them went down to-”
Exactly. Totally, and that’s literally our-
Interviewer: “The first independent thinkers?”
Yeah. If you read my editor’s note when I was editor of The Review, that’s literally the story … I was like, “Literally, two of the monkeys that decided to go down, thank you! 400,000 years later … I appreciate it. That was a very good decision.” You can actually trace back a lot of evolution to these iterative decisions, like the people who left Ethiopia, right?
Man was supposedly incubated in Ethiopia and then there were subsets of people that ended up in Asia, and there were subsets that ended up in Europe.
The logo is supposed to represent an iteration. The opposite of a circle.
How have you maximized learning over your life?
I think it comes from this iterative mentality, which actually Carol Dweck has done a great job capturing. She studied it and calls it the entity theory of intelligence versus the quantity theory of intelligence. In other words, the belief that you can improve and get smarter actually drives better outcomes in individuals if you test them over time. Everybody who knows me knows I’m somebody who’s very focused on learning. Today, I take lessons for various things that I’m interested in learning and getting better at.
Interviewer: “Can you explain that?”
Like chess, for example. Every Sunday, I take chess lessons because I’d like to get better at chess. I really enjoy playing the game. I’m not very good at it, but I’m getting better. I’d love to get to a point where I can get very, very, very good at it. As I start to get into a routine more, I’d like to add, later on, other lessons that I’d like to be taking. Again, about making the space.
Have there been any periods in your life where you learned an extremely large amount about something in a short period of time?
I think definitely the most concentrated learning I’ve ever done has been around this company, both before I went and pitched it, and actually got funding for it and started hiring around it, understanding what the opportunity was.
I’d like to say that most of the people I know who’ve built companies, that aren’t necessarily working out the way they wanted it to, they thought of interesting products that were differentiated. They built those products, they grew teams around those products, they got funding around those products, and then they faced the challenge of building a business around those products. That’s what kills most companies, in my opinion. In my instance, I found a market opportunity, and then based on the market opportunity, developed, essentially, a product.
How do you think about power?
The thing I look most closely at on people when I’m judging them is how they use the power they have over the people they have power on. To me, that’s the single test of a person.
Interviewer: “Can you give me an example of this?”
I’ll give you a very concrete example. Joe, for a period of time, had a lot of power over me. He was my boss. He was my mentor. I worked for him. He almost expressed his will through me. That’s what I was in a certain way, an agent of that will. He used that to help me grow. That’s the thing I respect the most about people… What I call leadership is when you use the power you have over other people in order to help them grow.
Can you tell me a story from your childhood years?
When I was 16, I did this thing where I went to, and I lived in Accra, in Labadi, which is a suburb of Accra, which is a city in Ghana, which is on the west side of Africa. I lived there by myself as a 16-year-old for a month, which is crazy. I think that my parents letting me do that was nuts. I was working at an HIV clinic and I was also helping instruct at a school.
Back to this HIV clinic. It was in a big hospital, where I actually got free license to walk around and do whatever the hell I wanted, just because I was wearing a lab coat and people seemed to trust that I knew what I was doing there. I got to walk around into all the different parts of the hospital.
The fact that that was something that I was really curious and determined to go to and see enough to actually go there, as a 16-year-old, live in a city I didn’t know, in a house with a family I didn’t know, in a culture that I wasn’t familiar with, demonstrates the will to learn and constantly explore and poke around the world.
To your earlier question on power, knowledge is certainly a form of power, and knowledge doesn’t have to be academic. You have knowledge of people. Seeing the way that doctors are interacting with patients, seeing the small cues from the families waiting out in the waiting rooms and the patients, and the ways they reacted to subtle cues from doctors when they were doing rounds … All of these things, they teach you so much about the world and about human beings, and just certain ways, the pursuit of knowledge and curiosity for knowledge, but that knowledge itself, in a certain way, gives you power to understand what’s going on around you.
I think just developing strong empathy and sensitivity to other people, that only works when you have a wide base. I almost think about it in terms of ML in a certain way. You have to have a training set that’s expansive enough to be able to make predictions across a variety of situations.
Why are you starting this company?
It depends on what level of abstraction you want to take it.
Interviewer: “In your wildest dreams, what do you hope this helps you realize?”
Going back to the goals, I hope that I built something that my family’s proud of and that my loved ones are proud of. I hope that it allows me to make a great contribution and gives me an opportunity to help the people around me grow. There’s definitely that, but then there’s also the … I’d say that’s definitely a key part of it. Obviously, there’s enormous financial upside in building a massive business, but I’m not necessarily optimizing this for financial upside, personally. That actually has concrete implications. I’m very generous with equity.
Interviewer: “Why?”
Because I know that I’m not going to build this myself. I know that this may not be the last thing that I ever build. I need to have other people feel as though they’re involved, and that they have a stake in this, too. In other words, I know I can’t do this alone.
Could you give another example of a person that you think a lot of other companies would want to hire, but you wouldn’t want to hire, or vice versa?
Yeah, this is being well-documented. The genius asshole is probably one.
Interviewer: “You would not want to hire, I presume?”
Yeah. One of the things I look for in candidates is mentorship. Do they have an appreciation for mentorship, both as it relates to learning from other people, but especially for the first people in the company, as it relates to teaching other people. That’s why we have something called lunch and learn, where we all talk about a specific topic we’re really fascinated with and share an interest category and educate everybody on it. There’s just small things like that, trying to create a culture around it.
What makes your team uniquely fit to solve this problem and what do you have that no-one else has that will make you number one?
That’s a good question and I think we have a lot of advantages. Obviously, we have the support and guidance of somebody who’s successfully built companies in the past, and I think that really accelerates the growth of a company and its success. If you take Silicon Valley, you take the five funds that have raised over a billion dollars in the last 10 years and hadn’t raised billion dollar funds before that, each one of them pretty much has somebody who has built a billion dollar company … I’m making that exception to account for Chamath at Social Plus. Other than that, it would be Peter Thiel, Mark Andreessen, and Ben Horowitz, which is obviously, that’s two. Joe and Josh Kushner, and Chamath. Those five people are pretty much the only ones that have started and raised over a billion dollars, at least that I know of, in the last seven to 10 years that have done super-well.
I think there’s a knowledge that you gain from having built your company. I think there’s only so much you can actually just reason through.
I think having that guidance makes us uniquely capable. First of all, we understand how technology works, which I would never … I think that’s something that people in Silicon Valley really dismiss as an advantage. When you go outside of Silicon Valley, people don’t understand a lot of the way that technology works and is evolving and value creation is moving. Hell, go 100 miles east of San Francisco, and try to explain AI to somebody and how that has implications for workflows. It’s not something that’s on their radar.
Finally, I think it’s just a lot of determination and energy. That goes a lot of ways. Young people with determination and energy, they’ve taken on governments … I would never underestimate the power of that.
Why do you care about the breakout list?
Every single actor in Silicon Valley has in their best interests to not share information. In a certain way, everybody’s incentive is to keep their cards as close to the chest as possible.
Interviewer: “Yeah, their short-term incentives. I would argue that if they look for longer term, yeah …”
Yes, maybe in some abstract, societal sense, but if I’m a venture fund and I have a bunch of great companies, it’s not necessarily going to be my incentive to go broadcast how great all these companies are and then solicit a bunch of competition. As a concept with I think you see like, concentration of successful companies within the best venture funds, and also that happens in a big way as a result of all these secrets that they’re sharing amongst each other. It creates an insider/outsider dynamic.
I don’t know how much of this to actually include, but the tldr is you are in a certain way, democratizing information. I hate that term. It’s so cliché, but at the end of the day, that’s what you’re doing.
Right now, a couple of the engineers on our team are from Northwestern, and I actually didn’t realize this, but apparently Breakout List is a massive resource for the Northwestern engineering community that’s interested in going into technology companies. I’ve only ever seen it being retweeted by these Silicon Valley insiders. I didn’t realize the extent to which it was being leveraged across the country.
Everybody at Northwestern reads it. Everybody at Northwestern knows the companies on it.
How would someone who has high potential but has no track record and might typically slip through a hiring funnel, how could they demonstrate value and impress you before even talking to you?
This is funny, the high potential/high IQ, I think that tends to mean … The way I see it being manifested is the ability to understand what the core levers of value creation are within an organization, what workflows essentially drive value for the organization, and then be able to add value even externally to demonstrate that you understand those. Come to the conversation with that as a background.
The classic example … Everybody who I spoke to when I was working a 8VC said “How do you get in the venture game” I was like, “The first thing you do is you find entrepreneurs and you send the deals to the venture firm that you’re impressed with and that you want to work with.” That’s probably how I would do it. That’s what I did early on with Joe, as well.
Interviewer: “You would find deals and send them to him?”
Mm-hmm.
Interviewer: “At what point in the hiring stage did you do that?”
Pretty early on, actually, but then again, the deals that I got, was it merit, really, that I happened to find a deal that … No, because I’d known the person who was running the company for a long time, and watched the company grow, and shared that with Joe, because I thought it would be interesting to him and 8VC. They ended up passing, but there is … The company’s now a multi-billion-dollar company.
Shogun is in stealth. They have 8 people full-time (as of December 2016) and are based in San Francisco, CA.
The best way to learn more if you’re curious about Anthony or the company is to interview with the company. They are explicitly hiring engineers and engineering interns and I’m sure will need more people in other roles too.
